Deeply satisfying read as always. In response to your questions - I'd say this defeat feels very well-earned, sometimes the dice are against you and as a GM myself I'm loathe to throw consequences this huge at my players but I consider that a failing on my part, seeing the good guys lose sucks in the moment but it's like in any good work of fiction, the bad guys have to win some to add to the satisfaction when they ultimately lose!
Vahid's hubris has been a long time coming. I think I've voted in every Vahid poll so far for him to chase down the path of darkness, because the scholar who pursues knowledge and power only to have it consume and corrupt him is such a classic and tragic trope, I can't help but support it.
On your last point, I will say this final battle felt an awful lot like watching Gandalf the Grey's final stand in Fellowship, and we all know how that ended...
Ha. Sadly, there's no Eru Ilúvatar waiting to send Vahid back to the world in Stonetop, but there might be some other powers willing to help. :)
I'm glad you're feeling it. Re: Your first point, this is exactly where my head is at too -- as a GM, I think I like to make my hardest moves in the middle or late-middle of a given arc, to produce Empire Strikes Back-esque reversals that can then be overcome to achieve a great victory. Here, I really tried to give each blow its full force, and assume that the foes were as strong or a little stronger than the heroes and their allies.
I want Vahid to pull back from the brink, for this to be the event for him to realise the cost of the powers he is wielding. That might mean he embraces them for dramatic potential later, with eyes open…
The defeat was not unexpected- he wasn’t as prepared as Ciri, or as ruthless. The question is, will this like in many stories be the setback that drives him to ultimate success?
Vahid has to stay! But in what form? Perhaps he now resides in the azure hand, awaiting one brave enough to seize it to receive his guidance? Perhaps His-Laughter-is-the-Thunder rescues his master at the last moment - for he will only be released if they are successful, and it has been a long time since he has had a true offer of that!
I think no matter what, we're not losing Vahid as a character, but seeing him as a ghost (a la a slightly more present Obi-Wan Kenobi, maybe bound to the Azure Hand, as you suggest) or a Revenant, who refuses the Last Door and remains in this world while he loses his humanity are both interesting. It might be moot, of course, if he makes his Death's Door roll!
I like die dance on the edged blade and pull of corruption very interesting. Probably because I personally like and have played to this trope myself (e.g. a Kuni Earth-Shugenja dipping deep into the taint to do "good"). So, yea keep it going. That said, I'ma ll for PTFO as in, if the story pulls him away in a fitting sense, so be it. I'm excited.
#2 Battle Outcome
I think i t feels earned. It's bitter sweetish, Pad and Anwen defeted their antagonists, but still their defense broke. I thinks its fitting, with Vahids failure (fucking hubris), .... maybe a little to desperate. It feels like a big lose (not judging). Like, Where even go from here, with the Elder Kris gone, and the Dvelve in shambles, what chance does Stonetop even have. I'm fine to go this road in a novel (which this somewhat is) but i assume it would be hard to swallow for a group at the table. Which might be fine, i guess, but at that moment I could not see what the group can even muster to vanquish Cirl, PTFO i guess ;)
#3 Death Roll
I guess i would make the death roll, or at least, why wouldn't I ignore it here. All requirements are met right? If I would be in Vahids shoes (player wise) i think i would go with a second live, and probably become a revenant (i dont find Ghost very alluring, ant Thrall is not fitting). Maybe the "His-Laughter-is-the-Thunder" can "hold him together" for some final revenge...
One note thou, on Draigh's betrail, I must say i did not really saw this coming, but maybe i just lost a little track on all the bosses. It felt as there was not a "chance" for the players to intervene. But maybe there was just not enough time before the battle and hunting the assassin would have countered this "approach"?
I didn't forecast it very strongly -- only showed that Draigh was consistently against working with the party, uniting the bosses, arming the populace, freeing Abrim, etc. etc. He was always dragging his feet and being bullied into compliance, and he, alone among the Bosses, had somewhere nearby to flee to: Marshedge. If anyone was going to betray the Delve, it was going to be him.
Great read. I would like to see Vahid pull back from the brink, maybe receiving a harrowing consequence (e.g nightly nightmares of what he might have turned into).
I really enjoyed reading the defeat, as it felt they were on the edge of winning but it was lost in the last parts of the battle.
I think they really did have a shot, but the dice were really sour -- each character rolled misses at a pivotal point in their conflicts.
Re: Vahid pulling back -- I think it'll be interesting to try to arrive at some sort of midpoint between power-mad cult leader like Cirl and just a humble scholar. I think a big consequence will be part of that -- maybe something that further isolates him from regular folk.
Deeply satisfying read as always. In response to your questions - I'd say this defeat feels very well-earned, sometimes the dice are against you and as a GM myself I'm loathe to throw consequences this huge at my players but I consider that a failing on my part, seeing the good guys lose sucks in the moment but it's like in any good work of fiction, the bad guys have to win some to add to the satisfaction when they ultimately lose!
Vahid's hubris has been a long time coming. I think I've voted in every Vahid poll so far for him to chase down the path of darkness, because the scholar who pursues knowledge and power only to have it consume and corrupt him is such a classic and tragic trope, I can't help but support it.
On your last point, I will say this final battle felt an awful lot like watching Gandalf the Grey's final stand in Fellowship, and we all know how that ended...
Ha. Sadly, there's no Eru Ilúvatar waiting to send Vahid back to the world in Stonetop, but there might be some other powers willing to help. :)
I'm glad you're feeling it. Re: Your first point, this is exactly where my head is at too -- as a GM, I think I like to make my hardest moves in the middle or late-middle of a given arc, to produce Empire Strikes Back-esque reversals that can then be overcome to achieve a great victory. Here, I really tried to give each blow its full force, and assume that the foes were as strong or a little stronger than the heroes and their allies.
I want Vahid to pull back from the brink, for this to be the event for him to realise the cost of the powers he is wielding. That might mean he embraces them for dramatic potential later, with eyes open…
The defeat was not unexpected- he wasn’t as prepared as Ciri, or as ruthless. The question is, will this like in many stories be the setback that drives him to ultimate success?
Vahid has to stay! But in what form? Perhaps he now resides in the azure hand, awaiting one brave enough to seize it to receive his guidance? Perhaps His-Laughter-is-the-Thunder rescues his master at the last moment - for he will only be released if they are successful, and it has been a long time since he has had a true offer of that!
I think no matter what, we're not losing Vahid as a character, but seeing him as a ghost (a la a slightly more present Obi-Wan Kenobi, maybe bound to the Azure Hand, as you suggest) or a Revenant, who refuses the Last Door and remains in this world while he loses his humanity are both interesting. It might be moot, of course, if he makes his Death's Door roll!
Here my late thoughts on your topics:
#1 Vahid’s earned hubris
I like die dance on the edged blade and pull of corruption very interesting. Probably because I personally like and have played to this trope myself (e.g. a Kuni Earth-Shugenja dipping deep into the taint to do "good"). So, yea keep it going. That said, I'ma ll for PTFO as in, if the story pulls him away in a fitting sense, so be it. I'm excited.
#2 Battle Outcome
I think i t feels earned. It's bitter sweetish, Pad and Anwen defeted their antagonists, but still their defense broke. I thinks its fitting, with Vahids failure (fucking hubris), .... maybe a little to desperate. It feels like a big lose (not judging). Like, Where even go from here, with the Elder Kris gone, and the Dvelve in shambles, what chance does Stonetop even have. I'm fine to go this road in a novel (which this somewhat is) but i assume it would be hard to swallow for a group at the table. Which might be fine, i guess, but at that moment I could not see what the group can even muster to vanquish Cirl, PTFO i guess ;)
#3 Death Roll
I guess i would make the death roll, or at least, why wouldn't I ignore it here. All requirements are met right? If I would be in Vahids shoes (player wise) i think i would go with a second live, and probably become a revenant (i dont find Ghost very alluring, ant Thrall is not fitting). Maybe the "His-Laughter-is-the-Thunder" can "hold him together" for some final revenge...
One note thou, on Draigh's betrail, I must say i did not really saw this coming, but maybe i just lost a little track on all the bosses. It felt as there was not a "chance" for the players to intervene. But maybe there was just not enough time before the battle and hunting the assassin would have countered this "approach"?
I didn't forecast it very strongly -- only showed that Draigh was consistently against working with the party, uniting the bosses, arming the populace, freeing Abrim, etc. etc. He was always dragging his feet and being bullied into compliance, and he, alone among the Bosses, had somewhere nearby to flee to: Marshedge. If anyone was going to betray the Delve, it was going to be him.
Great read. I would like to see Vahid pull back from the brink, maybe receiving a harrowing consequence (e.g nightly nightmares of what he might have turned into).
I really enjoyed reading the defeat, as it felt they were on the edge of winning but it was lost in the last parts of the battle.
I think they really did have a shot, but the dice were really sour -- each character rolled misses at a pivotal point in their conflicts.
Re: Vahid pulling back -- I think it'll be interesting to try to arrive at some sort of midpoint between power-mad cult leader like Cirl and just a humble scholar. I think a big consequence will be part of that -- maybe something that further isolates him from regular folk.